> Kenton Varda [NB: kentonv around here] launched Sandstorm in 2014 via an Indiegogo campaign, before co-founding Sandstorm Development Group with Jade Wang to develop Sandstorm as both a Software-as-a-Service [...]
> In early 2017, Sandstorm Development Group ran out of funding and the team primarily joined Cloudflare. [NB: Where kentonv works to this day, leading the Cloud Workers team. Arguably related?] [...]
> In 2020, a group of Sandstorm enthusiasts began a community effort to revive development of Sandstorm. [...] As of 2022, Sandstorm Development Group has been completely dissolved, and development of the Sandstorm project has transitioned to a community-run model.
Hello everyone. I have been using Sandstorm and put it to good use in the last few years.
I used it with Wekan for project management and I also run Dokuwiki for self-hosted docs. It has been zero maintenance for me so it has been great.
However, the packages ecosystem seems unmaintained. It is a pitty because I think the tool has a ton of potential and I really liked it.
I am considering moving to Yunohost or something similar but right now my little server hosts, together with other services, Sandstorm and I think Yunohost needs to monopolize the server.
So I would ask for recommendations on similar tools. Not bare Docker containers but fully lanaged platforms wirh one click installs where it is easy to add/remove users.
For Sandstorm alternatives with one-click installs and user management, consider Cloudron, Caprover, Umbrel, Unraid, TrueNAS SCALE apps, or Portainer with its app templates - most allow running alongside other services without monopolizing your server.
> So I would ask for recommendations on similar tools. Not bare Docker containers but fully lanaged platforms wirh one click installs where it is easy to add/remove users.
I've done a similar journey for my self-hosted stuff, started with Sandstorm, moved to Yunohost, but got frustrated with the configuration, and how different every package was and eventually have landed on using NixOS for my home servers. It's not a "fully managed platform" in the traditional sense, but if you're a developer, that's almost what you get. Adding new services is usually just adding the configuration for them.
Bit of a learning curve learning the language, tooling and ecosystem, but once you're over that hurdle, having all declerative configuration in SCM together with easy linking of configuration options together (define service ports once, reference them in other services, for example), and everything being easy to rollback, have been a god-send so far. Been running it for maybe 2 years or something by now, with more or less zero issues besides the ones I introduce myself.
Adding/removing users can be as easy as adding/remove one line of configuration, and redeploying. Simple enough for me and my family so far.
I looked into Sandstorm when I moved away from NethServer; I'm a strong believer in self-hosting. Sandstorm was too haphazard with apps and security of apps didn't seem to be their highest priority. I went with Cloudron, it's a nice mix of good app selection and security.
The entire security model of sandstorm is incredibly strong. This criticism is hard to understand. Can you elaborate at all? Do you recall any specific issues?
Imagine iCloud but you can manage more than 1,000 files at once, the files transfer much more quickly and don't have to use a touch interface that flakes out, plus no rent.
Is it just me, or is Sandstorm just not maintained any more?
The most recent closed issues were self closed rather than as the result of development, while meanwhile the open issues continue to pile up with virtually no code changes made to the tree…
It’s a shame because it seems like it could have been a thing. Sadly though it’s hard to justify time investment into a platform like this if you know there’s little to no chance of getting any issues fixed.
There is a small community maintaining it - there should be a link to the Zulip on the website - but it is a small group and a complex beast. Some effort is going into a rewrite that keeps the same app/security model, but moves from C++ to Go and simplifies the database layer. I believe that's taking up a fair bit of contributor energy.
That seems to be totally different. Sandstorm was a way of building your own private ~equivalent of Google Workspace out of existing open source web apps running in containers behind a common auth system.
Oh Sandstorm, what could've been...
Taking from https://sandstorm.org/about
> Kenton Varda [NB: kentonv around here] launched Sandstorm in 2014 via an Indiegogo campaign, before co-founding Sandstorm Development Group with Jade Wang to develop Sandstorm as both a Software-as-a-Service [...]
> In early 2017, Sandstorm Development Group ran out of funding and the team primarily joined Cloudflare. [NB: Where kentonv works to this day, leading the Cloud Workers team. Arguably related?] [...]
> In 2020, a group of Sandstorm enthusiasts began a community effort to revive development of Sandstorm. [...] As of 2022, Sandstorm Development Group has been completely dissolved, and development of the Sandstorm project has transitioned to a community-run model.
kentonv actually posted a recap of the history, including the tragic passing of Ian "zenhack" Denhart who was leading the community effort https://sandstorm.io/news/2024-01-14-move-to-sandstorm-org
Hello everyone. I have been using Sandstorm and put it to good use in the last few years.
I used it with Wekan for project management and I also run Dokuwiki for self-hosted docs. It has been zero maintenance for me so it has been great.
However, the packages ecosystem seems unmaintained. It is a pitty because I think the tool has a ton of potential and I really liked it.
I am considering moving to Yunohost or something similar but right now my little server hosts, together with other services, Sandstorm and I think Yunohost needs to monopolize the server.
So I would ask for recommendations on similar tools. Not bare Docker containers but fully lanaged platforms wirh one click installs where it is easy to add/remove users.
For Sandstorm alternatives with one-click installs and user management, consider Cloudron, Caprover, Umbrel, Unraid, TrueNAS SCALE apps, or Portainer with its app templates - most allow running alongside other services without monopolizing your server.
> So I would ask for recommendations on similar tools. Not bare Docker containers but fully lanaged platforms wirh one click installs where it is easy to add/remove users.
I've done a similar journey for my self-hosted stuff, started with Sandstorm, moved to Yunohost, but got frustrated with the configuration, and how different every package was and eventually have landed on using NixOS for my home servers. It's not a "fully managed platform" in the traditional sense, but if you're a developer, that's almost what you get. Adding new services is usually just adding the configuration for them.
Bit of a learning curve learning the language, tooling and ecosystem, but once you're over that hurdle, having all declerative configuration in SCM together with easy linking of configuration options together (define service ports once, reference them in other services, for example), and everything being easy to rollback, have been a god-send so far. Been running it for maybe 2 years or something by now, with more or less zero issues besides the ones I introduce myself.
Adding/removing users can be as easy as adding/remove one line of configuration, and redeploying. Simple enough for me and my family so far.
I looked into Sandstorm when I moved away from NethServer; I'm a strong believer in self-hosting. Sandstorm was too haphazard with apps and security of apps didn't seem to be their highest priority. I went with Cloudron, it's a nice mix of good app selection and security.
The entire security model of sandstorm is incredibly strong. This criticism is hard to understand. Can you elaborate at all? Do you recall any specific issues?
Security was their highest priority.
IIRC idea was that all security was done by sharing links (with capabilities) to documents.
This still exists? Is anyone using it? What's the use case?
Imagine iCloud but you can manage more than 1,000 files at once, the files transfer much more quickly and don't have to use a touch interface that flakes out, plus no rent.
Is it just me, or is Sandstorm just not maintained any more?
The most recent closed issues were self closed rather than as the result of development, while meanwhile the open issues continue to pile up with virtually no code changes made to the tree…
It’s a shame because it seems like it could have been a thing. Sadly though it’s hard to justify time investment into a platform like this if you know there’s little to no chance of getting any issues fixed.
There is a small community maintaining it - there should be a link to the Zulip on the website - but it is a small group and a complex beast. Some effort is going into a rewrite that keeps the same app/security model, but moves from C++ to Go and simplifies the database layer. I believe that's taking up a fair bit of contributor energy.
Cool, what would be the differences with a tool like https://dokploy.com/ ?
That seems to be totally different. Sandstorm was a way of building your own private ~equivalent of Google Workspace out of existing open source web apps running in containers behind a common auth system.