Ask HN: Is onboard audio still good enough compared to dedicated Sound Cards?
Recently, I upgraded my outdated PC to a Z890 motherboard, primarily because it was significantly discounted compared to AMD alternatives. After the upgrade, I noticed that the Realtek onboard audio doesn't sound as good as my previous configuration, which used a Recon3D sound card. Although I haven't conducted any scientific tests, the difference in sound quality is quite apparent to me.
I'm reaching out to understand the technical reasons behind this perception. Do dedicated sound cards offer tangible audio quality improvements over modern onboard solutions like Realtek? Specifically, I'm interested in aspects such as DAC quality, component shielding, and feature sets that might contribute to a superior listening experience.
Additionally, how much of this difference is rooted in theoretical hardware advantages versus user experience factors? Any insights or experiences from device engineers and audio enthusiasts would be greatly appreciated!
Mixed signal components are hard to do well and have significant impact on the quality of final analog audio I/O. So, it matters which components have been used regardless of whether it's on on-motherboard solution or an external add-on solution (whether internal over PCIe or external over another appropriate bus, such as USB); however, the economics of onboard solutions make it quite likely that this is where quality will be skimped since many consumers won't care much about quality differences in this area, whereas the focused external solution will live or die in part based upon the quality of such components.
Note, however, that this concern really only applies to whatever in your system is performing the final digital to analog or initial analog to digital conversions since that interface with the "real world" is where the quality matters. In a world with bluetooth speaker systems, where that mixed signal phase actually happens in the speaker hardware, it is relevant to consider where this kind of quality even matters in the full audio system you're deploying.
Soundblasters and other discrete audio cards sometimes have specialized high quality components like amps and DACs/ADCs in them. I can drive my Beyerdynamics DT1990 Pros through the headphone high impedance port of my Soundblaster Z from almost 10 years ago while my mobo can't do so as well. I've upgraded almost 4 times already, but the SB always stays.
Supposedly there are some mobos with almost as good if not better audio than discrete cards, but that only happens in high end mobos.
Noise isolation is a thing though, consider a lot of stuff is happening in your mobo all the time. A discrete card should have a lower noise level than an onboard one, while an external through hdmi/toslink/spdif should offer the best noise isolation.
Most of that info is widely available online though, you can check if your old Recon3D is better than your mobos onboard one.
Finally, remember that audio is a highly subjective experience, even with newer and better specs you may find you like the Recon3D sound signature more.
The chips used themselves for sound are perfectly fine. It’s pretty much all Realtek codecs on any motherboard. And even on the sound blaster cards. The only difference between onboard and dedicated cards is a bit more thought and care is put into shielding and external component selection, which can have a pretty big effect on performance. That tends to be the big difference between onboard and dedicated cards. Nobody hears the difference between 16 bit 48khz and 24 bit 96/192khz anyways. But bad component placement or selection can add noise, THD+N, and other problems.
Good enough for what?
Mastering a recording for money?
Listening to MP3’s through headphones?
Or something in between?
Consumer audio devices do all kinds of psycho-acoustic adjustment based on the likely limitations of playback systems, likely music genres, and consumer expectations.
Headphones and small speakers are going to sound thin without them…i.e. a transparent system is going to try to reproduce sounds that most speakers can’t output.
None of which is to say your new system sounds good or bad. Just that what sounds good is subjective and context dependent.
Depends. Do you care about FLAC vs MP3 quality? Then onboard will likely never be enough despite it being highly unlikely you can tell the difference when the song is ripped from the same audio source. (I can sometimes on my setups at home, but never could in the car)
If you have a decent set of headphones or speakers, grab a soundcard from the jungle site and find out. If you can't tell a difference, return it and keep your money.
It is subjective. Just depends on what is important to you. Pretty much everything has 24bit/96khz capabilities if not 32bit/192khz capabilities these days. IMHO, it comes down to if the opamp on the device is of good enough quality for the device you're driving. You don't want to plug a set of 600ohm headphones into a generic onboard sound device and expect it to sound like it would if you bought a proper DAC+amp setup. It simply doesn't have the power. If the sound device has a line-out, then you only need an amp.
Subjectively it seems like headphone jacks on laptops have gotten significantly better in the last 20 years. I don't have any qualms about listening to music on my macbook. Even budget audio interfaces like Focusrite are certainly going to have stronger headphone amplifiers and probably better frequency response and work well with higher impedance headphones though. Brands like MOTU and Audient are even better.
Anything inside the case will have more noise from other components than something sitting outside the case. Instead of a sound "card", you're going to want a USB DAC. It doesn't even have to be that expensive - those $10 Apple USB-C dongles were highly rated.
Not if the audio circuitry has been properly canned (i.e. Faraday-caged) and if the power supply produces clean input power; however, one or both and especially the latter often do get compromised in poorly integrated Wintel PC systems.
I'd recommend any good sound device that connects digitally, like USB or HDMI/Displayport.
So the answer is that you should get a dedicated sound device, but don't bother looking for an internal card. External devices are easier to connect, won't complicate upgrades, and can be attached to a different machine with less work.
Onboard has always been good enough, it's just that people are usually willing to accept trash.
I'd agree with your recommendation while pointing out that a big part of the benefit from doing this is getting high-quality audio ADC/DAC hardware in the final mixed-signal interface. This can be achieved well with either kind of device, but the external device will be usable longer.
That said, my biggest gripe about external sound cards is introduction of drivers rather than usage of standard bus class protocols, which has a tendency to create "complicated upgrades" problems due to the manufacturer dropping support for the driver over time, causing an unnecessary forced obsolescence for otherwise good external hardware.
Should this not be:
Ask HN: is on-board audio good enough yet to obviate dedicated add-on hardware?
When did on-board audio surpass custom hardware, so that we are on a reverse trend? I didn't get the memo. (Not that I'm subscribed to this issue in any way, mind you).
But, your onboard Realtek does have an S/PDIF output, right? If not directly as a TOSlink on the back panel, then surely as a motherboard header. From there, you can add/try/test hundreds of DACs, from el-cheap-o Amazon stuff to top-notch RME devices and such. As for analog audio out of any motherboard built-in audio card: that's crap, was always crap, will always remain crap.
I've noticed a sound card sounding better for higher impedance headphones and also having reduced interference from the onboard circuitry (from being further away?). That being said, I also had to calibrate my setting a whole lot more to get better audio which seems to be how it goes for hifi audio equipment. I've just stuck to onboard for a long time and it's usually pretty darn good sounding with my sennheisers.